Curse

Patrograd · Apr 30, 2007, 11:05 AM // 11:05

http://gwshack.us/b9b9d

On Saturday afternoon I obsed [meow] running their latest farming build (link above). We had a need to farm some rating after a couple of really poor nights and so have run this for a couple of days to recover. Now I have played some broken builds before, but this really is the easiest thing in the world to play and appears to be completely and retardedly broken. So far we have lost 2 games, both due to complete stupidity on our part (such builds promote such play I find) and we havent actually played anyone yet that had a viable counter to it. Clearly hard counters exist (vocal minority comes to mind) but arent common or usual in the meta at the moment.

How is it easy?

Well, beyond getting your paras to stand near to each other and press T-1-2 you dont need any actual co-ordination. At first we thought it was a spike build and played it like that, but its actually much stronger if you just spam stuff onto a called target until it either falls over dead or is obviously not going to, at which point you switch to something else, or even spamming stuff onto 2 or more targets (3 paras press T-1-2, two of them pick a monk to pressure eg) is pretty effective also. The monks dont need to do alot (except the one in split needs to wake up every now and then) and you need no more than a very basic understanding of GvG strategy to win games even against Okish teams. So far we have won 11 lost 2, +21 points (which took about 3 hours of play altogether)

You dont really need to run a flag all that badly, you can survive most splits easily (by sending back a monk (or even both monks) and the rit to guard the Lord while you gank in their base) everyone has about 1000 AP and the damage it hands out is just insane. In one match we had a monk afk reading irc cos he got bored, in another one of the paras went afk for nearly 5 minutes while he replaced his broken keyboard mid match, and came back to find himself alive and still with the team as his autoattacks had carried him into the enemy base with the rest.

I cant see how a balanced team (which is what we usually are btw) could possibly counter this without the paraway side screwing up. Please Anet, fix this, before every game becomes five paras per side failing to hurt each other for 35 minutes before one side or the other resigns in boredom. You can diversion one of the paras, big deal, he is still outputting huge damage, as are the other four. Hexes come off as soon as they go on due to dual expel and a convert, Aegis gets mirrored instantly, even heavy physical teams cant match the damage output and eventually fall over. Huge AOE pressure from multiple searing flames eles is probably a strong counter (as the paras need to be in each others shadows really) but thats not much comfort to balanced teams

Oh, and its also easily the most boring build to play I have ever come across. We will be playing something else pretty soon once we get back the rating we threw away at the end of last week as the boredom is killing us, but I think that unless this gets nerfed sharpish then its likely to become the new GvG FOTM, and that would be a pretty dull meta to be part of. I dont know how you would nerf it without taking paras out of the game (none of the skills by themselves appear badly broken, its only as a unit they are madly overpowered). I would even go so far as to say that the build as posted isnt the strongest possible combination of skills and that there are some pretty obvious tweaks you could make to improve it further ("fall back", Chorus of Restoration eg)

fenix · Apr 30, 2007, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Firstly, Meow sold the guild and some random guys bought it, so it's not the Meow that earned the cape (as you can probably tell from the lack of necromancer abuse).

Secondly, yes, this build is pretty overpowered. I saw eF beat Meow because Meow played like tards...but apart from that, it's all skill over build. This doesn't even need coordination, it's just spamming skills on recharge...

Surena · Apr 30, 2007, 12:09 PM // 12:09

[TurK] bought [meow] and since they are in the same league it's not too much of a difference. They're both farmers.

No matter what. For a midliner a Paragon's armour is way too high that even 70 would be too much considering how strong he can add to buffs and also dish out pressure.

icedwhitemocha · Apr 30, 2007, 02:47 PM // 14:47

I've only faced a para team like the one described above once in GvG, we got wiped... Can't remember what we were running, but they were on burning. That match sucked hardcore. I've seen paraway get beaten by good teams in obs, but they struggled to say the least.

I was also in a battle of attrition in HA (paraway vs paraway). Nothing died and both teams got bored. Eventually enough people on our team left and they won.

So basically paragons are bad. 80AL is ridiculous if they're to be given DPS comparable to warrior and not even have to be melee range. Ice snares make paragons lol, and snares and kiting are the only passive defense some teams have. Hey let's all run hexes!

Only ways to kill para offense at the stand that I can think of are either a) out passive-defense them with your own para b) run hexes c) split to force them to send offense back. a and b are lame and there are a million things that can go wrong with c; any I'm missing?

Div · Apr 30, 2007, 02:59 PM // 14:59

It's because of all the pvers that say paragons suck and they should be buffed, so anet is scared to touch them more. Go check those pve threads and half of them dealing with paragons is how they are nerfed to hell and need to get super buffed.

Ec]-[oMaN · Apr 30, 2007, 05:40 PM // 17:40

When was any build considered not broken when it consisted of more than 3 of the same primary?...

deadmonkey4u · Apr 30, 2007, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

When was any build considered not broken when it consisted of more than 3 of the same primary?...

2monks a smiter and a monk flagger? mm

anyways you got a point their.

Lord Mendes · Apr 30, 2007, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

When was any build considered not broken when it consisted of more than 3 of the same primary?...

When WM ran 4 W/Es (vs LuM) during the gale days. Never mind, bad example.

Yeah, para shit is crazy. Hexes is the only thing I can think of that doesn't have a massive disadvantage to it.

assassin of the god · May 06, 2007, 06:50 PM // 18:50

It's broken enough to let a guild like meow to get top 10. So, extreamely broken.